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Akhwat Shanai
14 Posts |
 Posted - 12/04/2005 : 05:09:20 AM
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The remains of more than 20 people who died several years ago were found in Lebanon, near what had been the headquarters and a prison of Syrian intelligence, police reported.
Bones were found in three mass graves on a hillside opposite the facility in the ethnically Armenian village of Anjar, just three kilometres (two miles) from the Syrian border.
They included human skulls and were found in 26 gunny sacks, which also contained underwear and the remains of one military uniform, an AFP photographer said.
An Anjar resident who requested anonymity told AFP that "prisoners who died in the Syrian mukhabarat (secret police) prison were buried on the hill."
A statement from the Internal Security Forces (FSI) said a "forensic pathologist examined the remains, which have been put in bags that will be sent to laboratories for DNA testing in hopes of identifying them."
It added that excavation work was continuing and that a judicial enquiry had been opened.
The official ANI news agency confirmed that graves had been discovered at the holy site, known as Al-Nabi Al-Ouzeir, but did not specify how many bodies had been found.
Lebanese police enforced a security cordon around the burial site, although excavation teams could be seen continuing their work.
A pathologist who visited the site said the remains dated from at least 12 years ago.
The fact that the remains were in bags and not buried according to any religious rites indicated the people may have been killed.
The prison dates back to 1976, when Syrian troops first moved into Lebanon a year after the outbreak of its 15-year-long civil war. It was used as a transit point through which Lebanese detainees on their way to Syrian jails passed.
Syria withdrew its forces from Lebanon in April of this year, under intense domestic and international pressure following the assassination two months earlier of former Lebanese premier Rafiq Hariri. Syria has strongly denied any involvement in the killing, which is under investigation by a UN panel.
The two countries' intelligence services are alleged to have carried out persistent human right infractions during the era of Syrian dominance, including arbitrary detention, extrajudicial executions and disappearances.
Is it the reason why all Syria's allies in Lebanon refuses an international court?
Are they afraid that such evidences will be reported to the court and Syrian Leaders (their financial partners) will be judge for war crimes and crimes against humanity?
Are they afraid of another "Nuremberg"?
Where were all the 14th of March Leaders before the Hariri's death?
Is this what Mr Walid Joumblat was proud of realising with Ghazi Kanaan?
Where were all the presidentiable Maronites?
If Pres. Lahoud has no responsability at all in Hariri's death , isn't his responsability for these crimes (as Chief of the Army and as a president) enough to make him leave his position?
I think that it is time for Lebanese to wake up and kick the ass of all arriviste and demagogue so called leaders"
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Edited by - Akhwat Shanai on 12/04/2005 05:10:00 AM |
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Pietro
Lebanon
64 Posts |
Posted - 12/04/2005 : 06:25:58 AM
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| Eventhough I criticize those who use the word "ennemy" for Israel, and say a modern state should not have another state as an ennemy, I can't but say here: Know your ennemy. |
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soropov
16 Posts |
Posted - 12/04/2005 : 09:40:25 AM
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The remains of many people were also found in a cave under "Villa Jabr" another quarter for Syrian Inelligence in Metn Lebanon.
They found remains on a wall. The shape of some of the remains was a cross shape.
I will let you imagine how these people were tortured.
The big and dangerous question is : Why no one mentionned anything about it, though a known Lebanese TV filmed the scene. |
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fraizzze
Canada
58 Posts |
Posted - 12/04/2005 : 10:55:15 AM
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Lebanese television stood very discrete facing such a discovery.
It is obvious some high-graded security chief does not want to spread the news.
The victory of freedom would be to let the world know what really happened there during the 1990 phase of the war.
So that they know that Syria is not just guilty of killing Hariri, but guilty of numerous hideous crimes against innocent lebanese soldiers and civilians.
But we do not seek revenge.
We seek justice.
Enough suffering occured, and no one (not lebanese, nore syrian civilians) deserve to pay again the price of our bloody 20 year long war.
Let us make sure our integrity is maintained, and that no other people plays with our lives the way Syria did before.
We need new clean relationships with our neighbours, and it wil be the ONLY way to assure that such things never happen again.
Hatred will only bring more mourning...
Bit for now, Lebanon must know who comitted these crimes, and follow these responsibles to justice (international court). And no one shall shut this news down !
Fred |
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Sayyed Hassan
Lebanon
13 Posts |
Posted - 12/05/2005 : 2:54:56 PM
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Well all of Lebanon was a grave during the Syrian occupation. It is not surprising to find a few mass-graves here and there. Not surprising for many reasons:
1) Everybody knew of the Syrian atrocities in Lebanon
2) No one doubts Syrian stupidity! They did not cover their trail.
The sad thing though if we still have people in Lebanon like Sayyed Hassan and Hizballah, like Sayyed 3assem and his Ba3is (Bissad) party, like the SNSP (Kawmi) and Frangieh Jr. up in Zghorta who continue to express their alliance with Syria and pledge to defend the Syrians against any Lebanese and against the world.
When will it become a crime to be pro-Syrian in Lebanon?
When will it become a crime to side with Syrians against the Lebanese?
Ya Sayyed Nasrallah, Saniora is not your ennemy, Syria and its Ba3ess regime are. Why are you so defensive of Syria? So scared it may be dragged as it should be into an international court? Were you part of its war crimes, crimes against humanity and atrocities in Lebanon? Has your Hezballah helped the Syrians kill any civilians wrongly or massacre the members of the Lebanese Army and Lebanese Forces who opposed the Syrians? Why are you afraid of exposing Syria ya Sayyed Hassan?
Last week your ministers (the Shi3as in the cabinet) jumped like crazy maniacs threatening to resign if Seniora discusses the international tribulnal, the week before, you boycotted the meeting when Seniora was attacked by Assad Jr.
What is the matter with Sayyed Hassan and Hezbollah.
I say, it is time for Hezbollah to join the Syrian troops. |
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Black Sheep
Netherlands
13 Posts |
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The Whip
42 Posts |
Posted - 12/08/2005 : 08:51:31 AM
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Black Sheep,
The sad part of the stroy is that you (we) are trying to apply universal Human Right standards to Syrian and Lebanese (with my respect to some, maybe few, Lebanese), societies that have no clues about International Law, Human Rights or the UN Charter.
These peoples (including many Lebanese) understand one language, POWER.
We do not need investigations or trials in anything.
We need only one thing: END THE BAATH REGIME IN SYRIA AND LEBANON. Capture its leaders and their agents, beat them and torture them to death, they and their children. This is the only way you can exact justice for the crimes of 30 years in Lebanon. |
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Pietro
Lebanon
64 Posts |
Posted - 12/08/2005 : 4:07:12 PM
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The Whip,
They can rule Syria forever and make a Babylon out of it for all I care...I don't see why we should care the Baath rule ends in Syria. All we would ask for is compensation. |
Edited by - Pietro on 12/08/2005 4:10:11 PM |
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The Whip
42 Posts |
Posted - 12/09/2005 : 09:22:07 AM
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Pietro,
Syria's rulers control more than 75% of our land borders.
They control more than 50% of our population (Most Shiites, many Sunnis and some Christians).
Unless there is a change in the regime in Syria and a new regime who genuinely accepts Lebanon's independence and stops interfering in our affairs directly or by proxy, we will never have peace.
As long as there is a regime in Syria willing to ally itself with Lebanese groups rather than have formal relations with a Lebanese governments, we will always have Lebanese groups who view Syria as a natural strategic depth for their local, national and regional ambitions (take Hezbollah, Kawmi, and Baas and you never know when Ishtiraki will have a change of heart again).
It is time for us to start Syria as the enemy.
What will it take to declare Syria an ennemy of Lebanon?
More than 30 years of occupation, extortion and rape of our country, infrastructures and components of our nation?
More than 30 years of shelling and bombing civilians? More than how many mass graves?
More than the most atrocious crimes against Humanity committed by the Syrians against the Lebanese?
And Frankly, I no longer distinguish between the Syrian People and their regime. In 30 years of the most horrific rule of our country, we never saw a single demonstration in Syria decrying what was happening to their "brothers" in Lebanon. They sucked our economy, destroyed our country, lived off our land and not a single Syrian voice to say enough!!! Get out of Lebanon!
On the other hand when a small insignificant UNSC resolution is passed they rally behind a despotic dictator.
Forgive me but I cannot regard this nation (Syria that is) as a friendly let alone a brotherly nation. It is an ennemy nation in the true sense of the word; although I am not one who uses this term in the modern era, but Syria is not of the modern era.
Yes they are our ennemy and I wish upon them wars and destruction and chaos for years to come until they learn the true meaning of nationalism, of sacrifice, of resistance, and of freedom. They need shock therapy and that will only come from an internal civil war in Syria that breaks it apart into tiny silos of ethnic and religious groups who will fight each other until Kingdom comes.
Mass Garves!!! Children and pregnant women in Mass Graves!! and you want me to forgive and forget?! No Never.
They must pay and God willing they will.
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Pietro
Lebanon
64 Posts |
Posted - 12/09/2005 : 10:14:32 AM
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The Whip,
I agree with all you've said. But you have mentioned the real problem yourself, which is not the presence of the Baathist regime, but the allegiance of 50% of Lebanon to this regime.
Let the Baathists rule Syria for 3 millenaries to come. These Lebanese Syrian agents are what should...end. |
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The Whip
42 Posts |
Posted - 12/09/2005 : 12:06:15 PM
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Pietro,
It is either a war in Lebanon to terminate the allies of Baas regime (Hezbollah, Amal, Kawmi, Marada, Palestinians, etc.) or a war in Syria that sucks them all in to fight over there and hopefully there won't be any Baassi left to be allied with or any of the Baas allies.
I think you and I see eye to eye the solution but we approach it differently.
The Baas is a toxic dump that will continue to pollute our life in Lebanon as long as it exists and it must be cleaned.
They have no money to pay us, they are hungry bastards living off the leftovers of our economy and feeding off our dumpsters. The only justice we can exact from them is termination.
I want to celebrate over their graveyard and hopefully Hassan Nasrallah and his "HeZib" and #asem Kanso and his Ba3es will be under with them.
I have been very silent lately but I am fed up. Sorry if I come across as ragefull, the truth is that I am. The sight of innocent children in mass graves and pregnant women tortured to death by the Baath regime in Lebanon reminded me of all the atrocities committed by the Assad dynasty in Lebanon. I grew up in war-ravaged Beirut, having to flee as a child the Syrian shells from one place to another. I tried to forgive them as hard as I could and I did but somehow they seem always unwilling to repent.
I wish death and destruction and mayhem and rape and violence upon Syria, its people, their children and their children's children for ever and ever.
I know I sound evil, but I say unto I am not evil, I am hurt and justice seems too slow to me if at all coming.
The picture of Walid El-Mo3allem hand in hand with the Lebanese Shiite Foreign Minister makes me want to puke. |
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Pietro
Lebanon
64 Posts |
Posted - 12/09/2005 : 5:06:19 PM
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Trust me it's a pleasure to hear you rage against the Baas!
You're still not seeing the wide angle, pal. Yes you're right ending the Baas in Syria would end its allies in Lebanon. But Baas was never the only obstacle to Lebanese integrity. I suggest you ask yourself why do we see Lebanese loyal to foreign forces? Well the answer is the lack of Lebanese patriotism.
The problem is from Lebanon. You end the Baas today, you'll have new Abdelnasers, new Hafezs` some time soon. What we need to end is this fraction of Lebanese people that doesn't believe in Lebanon. |
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Akhwat Shanai
14 Posts |
Posted - 12/10/2005 : 04:25:58 AM
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Pietro,
I agree that the main problem we have is the lack of Lebanese patriotism, but you can never wish the best for your enemies, which explains the rage of "The Whip".
When Israel occupied Palestine, we declared it as our enemy!!! .When it invaded Lebanon, it stayed our enemy. Even it went out it is still our enemy!!!. Everyone who does not say bad things about Israel is considered as collaborator.
I think it is time to put " Les points sur les i". Syria invaded Lebanon. It occupied it for 30 years. It made all kind of atrocities: Killing, Kidnapping, Terrorism, Mass Graves, Bombing, Corrupting, Stealing, torturing, etc... (I am not gong to list all their atrocities; it will take me 30 years).
Syria should be declared the first enemy of Lebanon. Everyone in Lebanon that tries to defend Syria should be treated as collaborator (3amil).
Let no one defend the Syrian people and only judge the regime. The Syrian people are ready to manifest for supporting their regime but never criticized what was happening in Lebanon.
I think it is time to declare that Syria is the first enemy of Lebanon.
It is time to judge as collaborators all its allies and everyone that is defending it.
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Pietro
Lebanon
64 Posts |
Posted - 12/10/2005 : 7:59:54 PM
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Akhwat Shanai,
I don’t wish Syria the best, I am totally indifferent. I just want what’s mine. But you opened a long debate here pal:
“When Israel occupied Palestine, we declared it as our enemy!!!” and it was the biggest mistake in Lebanese history, because it led to “When it invaded Lebanon”. I don’t consider Israel as an enemy; consider me a collaborator if you like.
I think we should have learned by now that for a nation’s interest, the word “enemy” must be wiped from the political jargon! Notice how the objects of this word are never countries or communities in the speeches of strong nations, the only things the USA per se refers to as an enemy are terrorism, dictatorships, etc… Totally “conceptual” enemies.
There is no such thing as an enemy. There are interests and interest crossroads…and that pretty much sums it up. National stands have led us nowhere else but here: misery. Israel and Syria are both foreign countries which I regard, among others countries, as objects to one variable: Lebanon’s interest. I am totally careless about other countries; my only enemy is my destruction, my only ally is my good.
Now I’d like to get back to a point. “When Israel occupied Palestine, we declared it as our enemy!!!”
Can you please explain how this was any logical, fair, intelligent, promising or good?
It was Lebanon’s suicide.
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Talal
Syria
21 Posts |
Posted - 12/11/2005 : 12:53:54 PM
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The Whip,
You really make me want to whip you, but I don't want to do it here. I will wait until we go back to Beirut, me and the whole Syrian army and then you will see real war and rape and truth and justice.
Syria didn't do to Lebanon any more than you Lebanese did to each other. We stopped the zionist from taking over your country, we protected the Christians from being wiped out by the Muslims and we stopped lunatic Aoun and crazy Geagea from massacring all the remaining Christians. We protected the Muslims from the Zionists in Lebanon and in Israeel.
Instead of your hate and your anger, I would rather you say THANK YOU SYRIA like yor brothers in Hezbollah and Marada did.
But many Lebanese seem ungrateful these days to the power that protected them.
Your day will come and we will show you real justice.
Death to Israeel.
Lomg live Bashar. |
Edited by - Talal on 12/11/2005 12:56:07 PM |
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Pietro
Lebanon
64 Posts |
Posted - 12/11/2005 : 1:14:27 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Talal
The Whip,
I will wait until we go back to Beirut, me and the whole Syrian army and then you will see real war and rape and truth and justice.
We don't have to wait. We've seen you before, in Achrafieh, in Zahle and in Qnat. We've also seen it during the last 15 years.
Anyway, about the "going back" issue: fasharet 3a ra2betkoun. Pray to keep standing in Damascus for the coming year before having such ambitions.
Out relation with Israel does not concern you, we are the ones who decide our international politics. You're just another foreign country we'll consider our relation with once the Baas epitaph will be sang...and while we'll be dancing Dabké on its sound.
Moderators, this user has called Lebanese ungrateful, he warned us of violence towards Lebanon, and he is meddling with Lebanese issues that don't concern him.
I suggest banning him would be a good act, just like they were banned out of our 10452 square kilometers. |
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Mass graves found near ex-Syrian HQ in Lebanon
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