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mehio
Lebanon
10 Posts |
 Posted - 07/07/2005 : 10:25:44 PM
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sister dana,
i am not disrespectful of women. on the contrary i respect women a lot and what i say is out of respect.
I did not mean that giving them power will destroy our society because women are bad leaders, no.
what i meant was that our traditions and society see the woman as the mother and the sister and the daughter. if you take the mother away from home to lead the country, who will lead her family?
if our daughters and sisters no longer focus on families but on society and leadership, then our families will be distroyed. look at the west, their women go out, they become politicians and fight in the army. what has that done to their families?
I do not wish to see our way of life become like the west.
I am not saying women should not work, but they should be given positions that allow them at the same time to be mothers and care for the family.
I mean no disrespect. |
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Jean
Lebanon
50 Posts |
Posted - 07/07/2005 : 11:13:07 PM
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Brother Mehio,
Very refreshing what you say. But you seem to ignore what women want.
The good thing about democracy is that it would allow women (and men) to seek whatever positions they wish to assume, while at the same time giving you the right to chose and lobby against any candidate you do not like. So if your sister or mother decide one day to run for office and you do not support her candidacy, I suggest you organize a group of like-minded individuals to rally behind you and oppose her candidacy based on a contrast between your ideas and hers.
Let your target be the particular candidate and her agenda, not her gender.
You and I are obviously on different sides of this issue, and I can be brought to respect what you are proposing but not in the manner in which you propose it. When we say liberty and equality, we mean for all, not just for men. Separate and equal is a concept that was tested time and again in many societies, only to find out at the end that "together and equal" is the formula for success.
So yes let women be all they can be and let our society benefit from their gifts and talents as we benefit from those of men. |
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dana
Canada
27 Posts |
Posted - 07/10/2005 : 03:32:58 AM
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Brother Mehio,
Thank you for your response and for clarifying. It honestly sounded a lot better in your 2nd revision :)
I understand where you're coming from, and I for one value quality family life. I also believe very strongly in a mother's influence in the home, and if a family is fortunate enough to have the luxury of a full time mum, and get by with a single income then that's wonderful.
I have to agree with Jean though; the choice should be there for women as well. There are those that will agree and rally for it and there are those that will oppose.
Just like partners in the institution of marriage, I believe a man and woman form a powerhouse. I don't see why we can't take that into every other institution as well...as Jean put it " 'together and equal' is the formula for success."
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lebanon419
United Kingdom
19 Posts |
Posted - 07/11/2005 : 08:03:19 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by mehio
I do not think that women should be promoted to leadership.
It is enough that woman already work outside the house and come in contact with men in a mixed society. giving women more power will destroy our society and our way of life.
yes i protect woman and i don't want them to be hurt but i do not agree that they should run for president in Lebanon or anywhere in the muslim world.
Mehio what’s wrong with ‘mixing’ if the woman and the man both respect each others? I suspect you are coming from a Muslim perspective, of which you seem to have miss understood.
Ya Mehio, our Lady setna Fatima il Zahara was a lady of society. Setna Maryam il 3azra was a lady of society. Setna Zainab was a lady of society. In fact, God has given ladies so much importance, that He wouldn’t be too happy to hear you say women will destroy society. In the Holy Quran, God has made men and woman equal.
I agree I wouldn’t want them running for presidency, because that really degrades them from their feminine touch. (e.g. Tatcher) yet, they should and must play an active role in society. The numbers of women MPs must increase to at least equally with that of men.
Additionally, just like to point out, that Rima Fakhry is the first woman on the political council of Hezbollah. She has a top position, and a responsibility away from her home. A mother of 4, who wears a black head-to-toe chador.
Yet I would point out, that the family must come first. That a lady or a man must not put their career first at the expense of the children. The woman has many roles in society, she must be able to organise them, and give priority to her being a mother. However, I think it is very possible to create a balance.
There will come a time where many will die,
When the ground will shake and the skies will cry.
But out of the darkness will rise a light,
A servant of Allah, full of wisdom and might. |
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Jean
Lebanon
50 Posts |
Posted - 07/11/2005 : 09:29:20 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by lebanon419
I agree I wouldn’t want them running for presidency, because that really degrades them from their feminine touch. (e.g. Tatcher) yet, they should and must play an active role in society. The numbers of women MPs must increase to at least equally with that of men.
Again I do not think that anyone should oppose any candidacy based on gender. Lebanon419, when you say I wouldn't want "them running..." that calls into question your values. If you see the post of the presidency as degrading and demeaning then why would you want men (only) running for it? Do you perceive men as mean and degraded? Do you have a problem with men in general? or is it just that some men in power have misperformed? and perhaps they should be replaced, by a better woman or a better man regardless of gender?quote:
Originally posted by lebanon419
Additionally, just like to point out, that Rima Fakhry is the first woman on the political council of Hezbollah. She has a top position, and a responsibility away from her home. A mother of 4, who wears a black head-to-toe chador.
I do not know the lady, and perhaps no one but hizballah members know that fact. But a woman in chador from head to toe is not the image I would want in my MPs or lady leaders. For all I know she could be a cross-dresser, a man behind the chador. I would support a woman proud of her feminism, strong in her commitment to public service and not afraid and not ashamed of being a woman. Again when we advocate a secular democracy, we cannot have women in chadors, nuns, or men in turbans or priests running around the public sectors in their religious costumes. That is not to say they cannot be part of public life, on the contrary, they would be most welcome, but must adhere to a civil code that bans religious displays in public offices. Again, I respect all religions and faiths and their practices, but I prefer that they practice inside their homes, their mosques, their churches their temples and their synaguogues, not inside the public office.
If you gave this example to iluustrate Hizballah's socially liberal agenda, I beg you not to. Hizballah is not the kind of political party that I would like political organizations in my country to be modeled after. Hizballah did not offer a single woman candidate for parliament, neither did Amal for that fact, why? Does Hizballah perceive the Shi3a women of Lebanon unqualified for publlic offices or must they always come behind the men? I mean no disrespect to shi3a women, but these are the facts and I would have loved to hear the voice of a single shi3a woman in matters of public policy.quote:
Originally posted by lebanon419
Yet I would point out, that the family must come first. That a lady or a man must not put their career first at the expense of the children. The woman has many roles in society, she must be able to organise them, and give priority to her being a mother. However, I think it is very possible to create a balance.
Well-said! I totally agree with you. Both men and women have equal rights and responsibilities to the family, society and country and they must be able to balance their priorities as they (as individuals or family units) see fit. |
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democracyinlebanon
16 Posts |
Posted - 07/11/2005 : 09:31:02 AM
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CONGRATULATIONS TO DANA.
YOUR TOPIC HAS GENERATED MORE THAN 20 REPLIES.
THANK YOU FOR STIRRING A LIVELY DISCUSSION.
DEMOCRACY IN LEBANON |
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lebanon419
United Kingdom
19 Posts |
Posted - 07/11/2005 : 11:59:13 AM
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There is a saying that goes like this: ‘to treat a woman equally, is to treat her unjustly’. The role of a President needs a male. It simply does not fit a woman. It will (what I meant, and you have twisted it to suit a nice ready-made-criticism) take off the gentleness of a woman. Such role demands a man, strong hearted, ready to impose his will. I have mentioned over and over Margaret Thatcher. A lady who lead a country, made huge changes (whether good or bad, that’s debatable), yet people here call her MR Thatcher. She lost her feminine touch.
We must keep in mind, yes both men and women should receive equal rights, true, but they are not equal. And (before you spring back up at me with another nice criticism) I mean equal in the sense of their abilities. i.e. men are more physically stronger, women are more gentle (all scientifically proven too). In fact, we have some roots of Christianity, were a woman is not allowed to lead the Church. I personally went to a Church of England school, were if we had a question, we had to pass it on to a male of whom will direct it to the leader. Women were represented by the male figure.
As for Rima Fakhry, I don’t know if you were attempting a joke claiming that only Hezbollah members know about her. Let me correct you. Only educated people know about her. (oh and also I am not a member of Hezbollah). Hayete, if you read papers (you clearly do not), I am sure you should have been aware of her.
LIST OF WEBSITES EDITED OUT
Here is a few websites, take your pick…oh and if you have problems reading, let me know I will be more than happy to assist you.
A woman in chador isn’t the image you want to see women in? Let me use your words in saying: do you have a problem with women in chador?? You are EDITED LANGUAGE here that you want equal rights between men and woman, shouldn’t you first EDITED LANGUAGE for equal rights between women without chadors and women with chadors?? Shouldn’t it be regardless their (gender) clothes, and more with what they have to offer society? You sound rather childish I must say.
A Chador hayete is not merely a religious costume. It is simply the clothes. Like you wear trousers skirts, some choose to wear a chador. I will be very proud of my parliament, when I see it mixed with all types of dresses. It should reflect our society. At the end of the day, it’s not what they are wearing that matter, (mish geyein ya3molo 3arid azye2) it’s what they have to offer…or you view it in a different manner??
I brought in the example of Rima Fakhry because I believe that Mehio is talking from a religious perspective about women ‘mixing in society’, and I wanted to show him, that a woman like Fakhery has mixed, with her chador, proudly. That Islam promotes a woman mixing in society.
I gather from your views you want to see a secular Lebanon. Now I personally want to see Lebanon secular in its politics, but it’s going to be impossible to see Lebanon Secular in everything. So keep your feet on the ground, and strive for the possible, and show a little respect to your fellow Lebanese.
EDITED |
Edited by - Truth Squad on 07/11/2005 12:23:24 PM |
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Truth Squad
114 Posts |
Posted - 07/11/2005 : 12:27:46 PM
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Lebanon419: You have been warned previously to watch your language in your posts. I will allow your post this time "edited" for offensive language.
If you insist on personal attacks, you will be permanently blocked.
Truth Squad
Forum Moderator. |
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Lebanese women running for President
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