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democracyinlebanon
16 Posts |
 Posted - 04/26/2005 : 4:27:18 PM
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Small district versus Mouhafaza!
What is the role of a deputy in parliament in Lebanon or in a democracy in general? That would be to relate the opinions of his/her constituents to government and legislate in the name of the constituency. when the constituency becomes too large (more than 25,000 people including voter and non-voter), that representation will loose its accuracy.
The best solution is to have small individual district designed based on equal number of inhabitants. Each district to be represented by 1 seat in Parliament regardless of confessional affiliation. The majority in the distric decides who their representative will be. |
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zys
Lebanon
35 Posts |
Posted - 04/27/2005 : 03:59:28 AM
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While small district sounds good, but in my opinion in a country like Lebanon such law will bring fanatic people to the parliament, the reason is that most of the time religious groups are gathered and isolated from each other. There is no real merge or fusion among them. For example if you say "Keserwan" you know you are talking about "maronites", speaking of "Tyr" means designating "chiites" etc...
For this reason, Mouhafaza with proportions is better suited for this country, since all the lists have to be mixed, and no list can take all the seats, it will only take a number of seats proportional to the number of votes it took in the voting. This way moderate people come to power.
Another good reason, for Mohafaza with proportions, is that if a list wants a greater number of seats it has to satisfy a greater number of voters. Gone are the days when a list takes all the seats by gaining only 51% of the votes. |
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LebMan
9 Posts |
Posted - 04/27/2005 : 04:16:53 AM
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No time for Mouhafaza with proportion.
The only choice now is KAZA it is better representative. |
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ilpoetino
Lebanon
9 Posts |
Posted - 04/27/2005 : 04:21:00 AM
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Whatever is the size of the district, lebeanese wise people should elect people that are ready to defend secularism.If we have a secular country, we will not care anymore if the region is maronite or shiite.
quote:
Originally posted by zys
While small district sounds good, but in my opinion in a country like Lebanon such law will bring fanatic people to the parliament, the reason is that most of the time religious groups are gathered and isolated from each other. There is no real merge or fusion among them. For example if you say "Keserwan" you know you are talking about "maronites", speaking of "Tyr" means designating "chiites" etc...
For this reason, Mouhafaza with proportions is better suited for this country, since all the lists have to be mixed, and no list can take all the seats, it will only take a number of seats proportional to the number of votes it took in the voting. This way moderate people come to power.
Another good reason, for Mohafaza with proportions, is that if a list wants a greater number of seats it has to satisfy a greater number of voters. Gone are the days when a list takes all the seats by gaining only 51% of the votes.
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Edited by - ilpoetino on 04/27/2005 04:22:20 AM |
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zys
Lebanon
35 Posts |
Posted - 04/27/2005 : 3:12:41 PM
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This is the main problem ilpoetino !
The percentage of people who believe in secular state is low I guess,
so you have to push communities towards merger and mutual trust.
If you say today that we should allow the president to be non-maronite, I am sure all the maronites will be against the idea.
There should be a way to establish trust among different people of different religious background. One way to do that is to allow people to elect candidates of different communities. This is only feasable (in my opinion) through Mouhafaza with proportions.
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LebMan
9 Posts |
Posted - 04/30/2005 : 05:44:11 AM
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The so called opposition deputees are nothing than just a bunch of liers....They have played this piece of theater to make us think that the loyalists have canceled the meeting to approve the law.
They thought only about winning the their seats again in the next elections, disregarding whether the law is representative or not!
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Gisèle
Lebanon
36 Posts |
Posted - 04/30/2005 : 09:35:26 AM
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I fully agree with Lebman. The opposition is much like the loyalists, a bunch of spineless, gutless liars. All they care about is their own re-election.
The whole thing in Lebanon now digust me. Look at them playing as if nothing happened. They cannot behave as free leaders. They are so used to receiving orders, they can't function without.
Mikati is crawling back to Damas after Hoss went last week.
Yak. |
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Talal
Syria
21 Posts |
Posted - 05/05/2005 : 7:47:04 PM
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| why lebanese people can not agree on election law? you need Syria to help? syrian people have no problem with laws, elhizb decides for us. |
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ezdean
Lebanon
21 Posts |
Posted - 05/05/2005 : 8:01:01 PM
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best election law is to allow the leaders of every 'taefah' to appoint directly the deputies for their group. junblat appoints druze deputies, sfeir appoints maronites, nasrallah shia, etc.
what's the point of elections if centered around listet organized by religious leaders?
Save time and money and appoint them the syrian way. syria knew what it was doing in lebanon. |
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mehio
Lebanon
10 Posts |
Posted - 05/05/2005 : 8:07:52 PM
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Talal, since when you guys aquired Internet and were allowed into democracy forums. Go back to your 'hizeb'. You are not welcome here.
Moderator, please liberate this site from TALAL.
quote:
Originally posted by Talal
why lebanese people can not agree on election law? you need Syria to help? syrian people have no problem with laws, elhizb decides for us.
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mehio
Lebanon
10 Posts |
Posted - 05/05/2005 : 8:11:04 PM
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EZ, i like your name  .
Unfortunately you are right, but we need to ride this wave until we make it. It will take time.
I think if the people are well aware, regardless of the election law, we will see a truly Lebanese parliament. If not, they will get what they deserve.
quote:
Originally posted by ezdean
best election law is to allow the leaders of every 'taefah' to appoint directly the deputies for their group. junblat appoints druze deputies, sfeir appoints maronites, nasrallah shia, etc.
what's the point of elections if centered around listet organized by religious leaders?
Save time and money and appoint them the syrian way. syria knew what it was doing in lebanon.
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zys
Lebanon
35 Posts |
Posted - 05/06/2005 : 02:40:17 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by ezdean
best election law is to allow the leaders of every 'taefah' to appoint directly the deputies for their group. junblat appoints druze deputies, sfeir appoints maronites, nasrallah shia, etc.
what's the point of elections if centered around listet organized by religious leaders?
Save time and money and appoint them the syrian way. syria knew what it was doing in lebanon.
I totally disagree, because we will end up with a bunch of quaralling fanatics in the parliament. These people do not want a real democratic country because their role will be over, and they won't be able to blackmail their citizens with favours in exchange of their votes.
Mohafaz with proportions is better for Lebanon, since lists with only 10% of the votes will be represented in the parliament and has the chance to prove itself over 4 years period.
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Edited by - zys on 05/06/2005 02:43:10 AM |
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ezdean
Lebanon
21 Posts |
Posted - 05/06/2005 : 9:37:09 PM
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of course I was joking when I said let the religious leaders choose the deputies. that is not what I aspire for, but they will in the end.
AGAIN I SEE HERE WHAT I SAID ELSEWHERE, THEY WANT US TO TALK ABOUT THESE TRIVIAL ISSUES TO DISTRACT US FROM FOCUSSING ON IMPORTANT THINGS FOR OUR FUTURE.
PERSONALLY I FEEL THAT THE INDIVIDUAL SMALL DISTRICT GIVES THE BEST REPRESENTATION IN PARLIAMENT AND IT SHOULD BE ON A PURELY MAJORITY BASIS. DIVIDE LEBANON ADMINISTRATIVELY INTO SMALL ELECTORAL DISTRICTS WITH EQUAL NUMBER OF CITIZENS AND ASSIGN ONE SEAT PER DISTRICT. YES THERE WILL BE A MINORITY OF FANATICS WHO WILL MAKE IT IN, BUT MOST AREAS IN LEBANON HAVE MIXED CITIZENS. IF YOU HAVE 2 OR 3 CANDIDATES RUNNING IN A MIXED DISTRICT, THE ONE WHO WINS WILL HAVE TO ADDRESS THE MINORITIES ISSUES.
NOW TO AVOID FANATICS TAKING CONTROL, THE CONSTITUTION CALLS FOR A SENATE (MAJLES SHOUYOUKH). THESE CAN BE ELECTED BY MOUHAFAZAH AND THEIR SEATS COULD BE APPORTIONED ACCORDING TO THE DIFFERENT SECTS. |
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Samir
Lebanon
33 Posts |
Posted - 05/06/2005 : 9:53:57 PM
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Well said ezdean. why don't you make this proposal official. it sounds very reasonable to me. Now if you want real trivial I suggest you go to rej3a bi izen ellah. That one may seem trivial but is really deep.
quote:
Originally posted by ezdean
of course I was joking when I said let the religious leaders choose the deputies. that is not what I aspire for, but they will in the end.
AGAIN I SEE HERE WHAT I SAID ELSEWHERE, THEY WANT US TO TALK ABOUT THESE TRIVIAL ISSUES TO DISTRACT US FROM FOCUSSING ON IMPORTANT THINGS FOR OUR FUTURE.
PERSONALLY I FEEL THAT THE INDIVIDUAL SMALL DISTRICT GIVES THE BEST REPRESENTATION IN PARLIAMENT AND IT SHOULD BE ON A PURELY MAJORITY BASIS. DIVIDE LEBANON ADMINISTRATIVELY INTO SMALL ELECTORAL DISTRICTS WITH EQUAL NUMBER OF CITIZENS AND ASSIGN ONE SEAT PER DISTRICT. YES THERE WILL BE A MINORITY OF FANATICS WHO WILL MAKE IT IN, BUT MOST AREAS IN LEBANON HAVE MIXED CITIZENS. IF YOU HAVE 2 OR 3 CANDIDATES RUNNING IN A MIXED DISTRICT, THE ONE WHO WINS WILL HAVE TO ADDRESS THE MINORITIES ISSUES.
NOW TO AVOID FANATICS TAKING CONTROL, THE CONSTITUTION CALLS FOR A SENATE (MAJLES SHOUYOUKH). THESE CAN BE ELECTED BY MOUHAFAZAH AND THEIR SEATS COULD BE APPORTIONED ACCORDING TO THE DIFFERENT SECTS.
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Lebanese Abroad
11 Posts |
Posted - 05/06/2005 : 9:57:44 PM
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| Ezdean, you make an excellent proposal. You need to add the right of Lebanese abroad to vote at embassies, consular offices, etc. A true democracy requires participation of all citizens wherever they can in the electoral process. |
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Justice For All
Lebanon
20 Posts |
Posted - 05/09/2005 : 10:50:17 PM
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I move to propose a joint resolution of Ezdean and Lebanese abroad proposals.
All in favor say: Ay.
All opposed: Nay. |
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Topic |
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Parliamentary Election Law
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